The Center > Chapter 462

ZsychPrime

Sep 3 2009, 10:03 AM

QUOTE(ShiningN at NF)

just translated the naruto and madara's talk, could be some minor mistakes but it's pretty much it.

page changes to naruto

naruto: lies ... that's nonsense

yamato: that can't be

tobi: to talk about sasuke we cant avoid talking about itachi

kakashi: enough with the jokes that tale (killing of the relatives) i can't believe it

tobi: no it's not a lie
that was the truth about itachi ( the killing of his relatives was an order from the authorities of konoha )
that guy did it for the sake of sasuke and konoha

kakashi: what do you mean
if that would be true and if sasuke knows it
why is he helping akatsuki!? if he wanted to continue with itachi's will he should've come back to konoha

tobi: as sasuke's teacher and as his friends you are absolutely mistaken about his true feelings and what he plans to do

naruto: you made sasuke that way!?

tobi: no you're wrong

naruto:...

tobi: sasuke made that choice himself

yamato , kakashi: !!

naruto:lies

tobi: it was a gamble for me too... was he going to follow itachis will or take revenge on konoha....
he chose revenge, he became a member of akatsuki and his actual objective is....
revenge on konoha for what they did to itachi

naruto: why... why... that guy... why has it come to this.. why go for revenge

tobi: can't be helped it's in the blood... uchiha's fate of hatred it's like curse that goes on everlastingly

naruto: fate of hatred... curse...

tobi: that's right ... long ago the one called rokudo senin ancestor of all shinobis...the curse of hatred came from him

kakashi: rokudou senin you say... that's just a simple myht...the mutation of the rinnengan

tobi: myth has a base of truth i'll tell the tale.. to lead peace was rokudou dream when that time came rokudou seinin would entrust power and will
to his sons
the elder brother would be gifted with his eyes(gan) power of the chakra and energy of the soul(mind) , power is needed to understand peace
the younger brother would be gifted with his flesh .. power of the soul(mind) and energy of the body, love is needed to understand peace
in the end when rokudou was in his death bed he had no other choice but to pick a sucessor and that decission made the curse of hatred live forever

naruto: what do you mean

tobi: the elder brother was entrusted with the power and the younger with the love
rokudou thought the most appropiate would be the younger brother so he chose him
naturally the elder brother thought he would be the one and instead of understanding the hatred consumed him and the dispute with his
younger brother started
the elder brother called his descendants uchiha
the younger brother called his senju
with this the battle to be first hokage started with uchiha madara and senju hashirama... it was fate
you (naruto) , we will meet again, the will of fire of senju lies inside you
even now i can see the first hokage inside you., he's not dead he lives that's my aspiration to have as a rival the man i hate the most
senju and uchiha will of fire and hatred ...naruto and sasuke

LOL Naruto as Senju. I wonder what happened to the idea of sharingan deriving from Byakugan.

Super Lucyjin

Sep 3 2009, 10:31 AM

Now, unless they mean the Will of Fire in a figurative sense like they did when the Third died... that means Naruto and Tsunade are fairly closely related, considering the First was her grandfather.

If it's the latter, GIANT PLOTHOLE, KISH.

Woofie

Sep 3 2009, 02:52 PM

Why didn't you just post the full spoiler? It's been out for nearly two days.

By Pocketmofo:

SPOILER (Click to show and click again to hide)

I found this chapter quite interesting. Whether I like it or not, I'm less certain, but it was still much better than the last one.

Madara's talk is the main reason for this. There's a lot of new information and history there, which I generally like... but at the same time, I'm sort of getting sick of these random legends being pulled out of thin air. Rikudou Sennin I could just about accept (it's a pity I'll always associate him with such a terrible character as Pain, though), but when the whole 'Child of Destiny' thing came in, it started going too far. Then there was Rikudou supposedly creating the moon and what not... I suppose it annoys me that a random non-character who probably didn't even exist in Kishimoto's mind until chapter 300 is now so important to the whole shinobi world. Except he isn't be important to the actual plot, he can't be, really, which makes it even more pointless.

But despite that, I don't really mind the idea that the Uchiha and the Senju clans descended from Rikudou's children. I don't like the idea that fate is playing any part in this, but there could be more sensible explanations for the continuing rivalry; it may just have continued from the start, with the history and culture of the clans ensuring that each generation grows up with the same kind of attitudes and beliefs. And it could be partly genetic or something.

The fight with Taka actually sounds pretty good. I'm glad Juugo isn't being completely owned - it sounds like he's tanking some really heavy blows. Sasuke taking out C (who I don't really like) is welcome too. And the last page of the chapter looks cool.

I also like the way the fight is interspersed between parts of Madara's speech - a lot of the time it's annoying when fights are broken up, but just occasionally, when the action actually emphasises what's being said (e.g. during the Gaara/Naruto fight, with Sandaime's speech), it can be pretty effective.

QUOTE

Now, unless they mean the Will of Fire in a figurative sense like they did when the Third died...

He very likely does (admittedly it wasn't very clear in the translation Zsych posted, but in the others it is).

ZsychPrime

Sep 3 2009, 03:18 PM

Where it'd be half-okay if Sasuke kills Raikage, I'd really prefer Sasuke getting his ass handed to him.. especially after all this setup

I agree the history that's being brought up is rather lame.

I like the 'Hatred is Sasuke's ninja way' That would be quite a truth for Naruto to accept... and honestly it would severely improve the manga if Naruto could get that through his thick skull.

Naruto

Sep 3 2009, 09:21 PM

I, too, am a little frustrated that the Byukagan is not addressed in this...a big hole.

Likewise...wouldn't the first two sons have had the greatest powers? Where was mangekyou then?

I suppose Itachi gave Naruto something to encourage and strengthen the will of fire inside Naruto that HE (ITACHI) TOO CARRIED INSIDE HIM...that's messed.

ZsychPrime

Sep 4 2009, 07:05 AM

It would have been interesting to see Sasuke copying the Raikage's raiton based speed enhancement.

Baka Onna

Sep 4 2009, 08:50 AM

Wow! Naruto and Sasuke were fated to fight each other! How special!

This has never ever happened in a manga, I bet!

...I dunno, the idea of fate and destiny just seems so tired and overused.

I know that's generally what's been implied throughout, but that somehow makes the fact it's so overtly stated here worse because it's so obviously what's been implied for years.

I agree with Woofie that it's portrayed as Madara's opinion (if he's being sincere, which is always a bit hard to say), or as culture, which makes it a bit more tolerable, but still. I haven't enjoyed Sasuke's fighting much because he seems so flat and without personality at the moment.

QUOTE(ZsychPrime @ Sep 3 2009, 03:18 PM)

I like the 'Hatred is Sasuke's ninja way'

I read the SleepyFans translation, which had it translated as "Sasuke's Dogma"... does anyone know if the raw said "nindou"? I think it's much more effective if hatred is "Sasuke's ninja way", since we've had Naruto telling us about his for ages.

I think simply recognising that his isn't the only ninja way (even if he thinks his is the best) would be an interesting development for Naruto.

But anyway, I guess I just don't know how to feel about Sasuke at the moment. He showed potential in part 2, but post-Itachi his motives have swung from quite interesting to confusing to just empty and dumb. So he wants to destroy Konoha for what it did to Itachi? Even kill all the little children and elderly people, like Itachi was made to do and that made Sasuke detest him and want to kill him ever since? Sasuke's supposed to be the intelligent, calculating and dispassionate one, but it all just seems pointless and ill thought out.

Super Lucyjin

Sep 4 2009, 08:55 AM

@ Janey-jane; I saw a low quality photo pic of the page in question, I'm pretty sure it said 'Nindou'.

Baka Onna

Sep 4 2009, 09:06 AM

Ah, that makes sense then.

Thanks!

Woofie

Sep 4 2009, 10:23 AM

QUOTE

But anyway, I guess I just don't know how to feel about Sasuke at the moment. He showed potential in part 2, but post-Itachi his motives have swung from quite interesting to confusing to just empty and dumb. So he wants to destroy Konoha for what it did to Itachi? Even kill all the little children and elderly people, like Itachi was made to do and that made Sasuke detest him and want to kill him ever since? Sasuke's supposed to be the intelligent, calculating and dispassionate one, but it all just seems pointless and ill thought out.

I agree, but for the last couple of weeks I've just thought 'screw it'; if Kishimoto's going to force Sasuke down the evil path (which the dark chakra pretty much confirmed), I might as well roll with it. I guess I hardly even think of him as the same character now, so if he does ever go back to being likeable (to me) again, I'll probably just be able to forget everything from 395 onwards even happened.

QUOTE

It would have been interesting to see Sasuke copying the Raikage's raiton based speed enhancement.

He probably will. He needs something to keep up with Sennin Mode Naruto.

Edit: I don't know why I bothered downloading Sleepyfans.

ZsychPrime

Sep 4 2009, 10:39 AM

QUOTE

Sasuke's supposed to be the intelligent, calculating and dispassionate one

He's always seemed like moderate intelligence and restrained but strong evil emotions to me. I always thought Naruto showed more signs of actual intelligence, suffering from having been brought up horribly... of course, I dislike his character as well, primarily because he is an idiot and sees only what he wants to see. I like idealism but there's a limit to how far it should go.

Kireato

Sep 4 2009, 12:23 PM

QUOTE

Now, unless they mean the Will of Fire in a figurative sense like they did when the Third died... that means Naruto and Tsunade are fairly closely related, considering the First was her grandfather.

That is nonsense. The Senju was a large clan, and the first Hokage was only one member of it and not the ancestor of the whole clan. That's about as ludicrous as assuming that Sasuke is closely related to Madara when, as far as we can tell, he has no descendants. The Senju have always been in power in Konoha, so we can assume that the Sarutobi are Senju, and that many others, even Orochimaru, are Senju. As for Naruto's will of fire or whatever people want to call it, I'm just going to check his massive chakra, which happens to have nice properties allowing him to survive extreme contact with the Kyuubi's chakra, and his love and say that, yeah he probably has Senju blood running in his veins.

But the whole story of fate of the Uchiha and the Senju is just a mess anyways. I'm pretty sure Danzou and Orochimaru were Senju, and it hasn't stopped them from throwing tantrums when they don't get to be Hokage. Similarly we've seen some Uchihas which weren't consumed by hatred such as Itachi or Obito. So I can only massively lol when Madara claims that hatred is the fate of the Uchiha when there are like three guys who've been consumed by it. And let's all get into the reasons of their hatred. Sasuke wants revenge for those he loved who were murdered (and is sometimes jealous when he isn't the most awesome out there), but the elder son of Rikudou was only ambitious and willing to kill his brother in his rampage, while Madara claims that he'd never find it in him to hurt his beloved brother but has the same serious issues with not being chosen as the almighty leader of Konoha.

QUOTE

Sasuke's supposed to be the intelligent, calculating and dispassionate one

Where have you seen a lack of passion? Sasuke's feelings have always been prominently shown. (Easy example being his encounter with Itachi where he rushes at him without thinking.)

And with that, it's funny to see that the Raikage is indeed just doing the same as Kirua with his electricity. He must have quite a bit of chakra to maintain that.

Again, Juugo's body is really something, he can just relocate his organs or create new stuff at will, while having lots of chakra to do so, so being pierced, ripped up, doesn't affect him. I even doubt he's currently out of the fight, since he hasn't yet gone back to normal. It's sad that his ability severely strains his personality.

Well with one under genjutsu, the butcher brothers getting in each other's way, the little freak sticking as a wall ornament and the little girl hiding in a corner we've pretty much cleared out the scene for the flashy guys. Except more people will be coming, Samurais and ninjas, so it's still a big mess.

Baka Onna

Sep 4 2009, 01:02 PM

QUOTE(Kireato @ Sep 4 2009, 12:23 PM)

QUOTE

Sasuke's supposed to be the intelligent, calculating and dispassionate one

Where have you seen a lack of passion? Sasuke's feelings have always been prominently shown. (Easy example being his encounter with Itachi where he rushes at him without thinking.)

Itachi is the exception.

He's been dispassionate about most other things because he was so focused on Itachi. Okay, all that means it's going to be unpredictable post-Itachi given that his goals have changed, but he seems to have been fairly cool most of the time (it's been Suigetsu and Karin who have been the energetic ones).

Kireato

Sep 4 2009, 02:10 PM

That's wrong. There are several other example of his instinctively passionate nature. The fireball episode with his father, his competition with Naruto, etc. Sasuke displays and acts upon plenty of emotions. The only thing Sasuke doesn't care about is girls.

ZsychPrime

Sep 4 2009, 02:27 PM

I agree, Sasuke's pretty much ruled by his passions. Not by cold logic.

Lotus

Sep 4 2009, 03:33 PM

Solike, remember way back when Neji was ranting about how everything was decided by destiny and Naruto started blathering about how destiny didn't determine anything.

LOL

And I wouldn't really consider Sasuke all that "calculating", especially in this arc. His entire plan appears to be to charge in and fight his way past every lolsamurai, jounin and Kage to get to Danzou. Of course, I get it. Panels of him waiting in trees planning to ambush Danzou naturally isn't as entertaining as him fighting his way through.

ZsychPrime

Sep 4 2009, 04:11 PM

A couple of panels of him reviewing his long term (non-)strategy could've been interesting.

Revolver Rossalot

Sep 4 2009, 04:52 PM

It was an alright chapter. It seems odd that Sasuke is now being driven by hatred when before he was painted as a good guy, being unwilling to kill his enemies. The whole backstory about the Rinnegan sage guy and his sons was just to set up an epic confrontation between Naruto and Sasuke.

ZsychPrime

Sep 4 2009, 07:09 PM

They really need to still pick up a few more interesting jutsu, so it doesn't end up being a glowing hands (rasengan, chidori) taijutsu battle again... alright it'll be more than that with Sasuke's various jutsu and genjutsu, but I really need to see a kamehameha and not the rasen-shuriken (which had better not be used against Sasuke if Naruto is actually trying to save the guy at the time)

coolkid022888

Sep 4 2009, 10:55 PM

Soiling Shodaime's name for yet another rivalry overlay. Presenting the cases of the Uchiha and Senju in pure moral binaries. And doing all this with a complete disregard for the story's history.

That Shodai/Naruto panel is going to give me nightmares.

QUOTE

but I really need to see a kamehameha and not the rasen-shuriken

Didn't Juugo just do the kamehameha wave? lol. I think attacks like that are silly and are lazily done. Why have some ambiguous energy blast when your suppose to be a ninja!? Surely Kishi can get more creative with a schizophrenic, psychopathic beast ninja. Its a dangerous move to start having fights like that...not to long ago fights were more detailed; and carefully explained. Can you tell me how the Raikage even survived that blast? Nothing was explained or even hinted at.

Potential pluses for this chapter...Sasuke's very clearly in the naughty now. Seems like he's finally playing for keeps, and that's character progression. Also, even if Naruto doesn't, I think Yamato and Kakashi may have gotten the hint that it's no use converting Sasuke; especially with the Itachi story leaked. I'm just hoping for some cool new, unique jutsus from all these capable ninja gathered here. All the Kages are just miles away; surely they would own Sasuke.

Woofie

Sep 5 2009, 01:10 AM

QUOTE

Also, even if Naruto doesn't, I think Yamato and Kakashi may have gotten the hint that it's no use converting Sasuke.

It's always going to come down to Naruto in the end though, so I don't think it makes much difference how many other people have given up on Sasuke. I don't think Naruto will go back on his words to Itachi. If he couldn't choose between Sasuke and Konoha, I doubt he'll choose between Sasuke and the world either.

Maybe whatever power Itachi gave Naruto will help convert him?

ZsychPrime

Sep 5 2009, 05:56 AM

That would be awesome. Naruto's flaws corrected by external force. But Itachi seemed to give Naruto some power so maybe it'll be like:
Naruto: "This is the real susanoo" - [Spirit comes out with lightsabers, and cuts off Sasuke's arms and legs and burns out his eyes - the wounds are instantaneously cauterized] ... leaving Sasuke alive and no longer a threat

Of course, something like this would work
<Bug kid who's name I've forgotten>: My bug has entered your body through your nose. Its a super-chakra eating bug that will drain your chakra and grow in size as you use it, killing you if it grows too big from your trying to use chakra... You can never use chakra again. Your life as a ninja and all your dreams are now finished!

Naruto

Sep 5 2009, 04:50 PM

The Shino hypothetical is the what he should have been doing all along...

Naruto is a type of all the best heroes of old.

ZsychPrime

Sep 5 2009, 06:25 PM

What best heroes of old? Even as far as stuff Naruto was inspired by goes, Gokou was nowhere near as annoying as Naruto.

Lotus

Sep 6 2009, 07:18 AM

I think he meant the old heroes from the Narutoverse.

ZsychPrime

Sep 6 2009, 07:23 AM

More like all great goodies in Naruto are supposedly cast from the same mold.

You know the whole 'Uchiha were planning to betray, and were betrayed by Konoha' thing could have been so much more interesting, if it wasn't thrown in so late.

Baka Onna

Sep 6 2009, 09:32 AM

Okay, that's the last time I bother making anything other than a

caps lock comment in this thread, you nerds.

Maybe I'll post the occasional picture of Itachi with MSPainted hearts around it, but that's about it.

Super Lucyjin

Sep 6 2009, 11:27 AM

I demand a Jane-drawing of Itachi with hearts around it, now.

ZsychPrime

Sep 6 2009, 11:33 AM

QUOTE(coolkid022888 @ Sep 4 2009, 10:55 PM)

QUOTE

but I really need to see a kamehameha and not the rasen-shuriken

Didn't Juugo just do the kamehameha wave? lol. I think attacks like that are silly and are lazily done. Why have some ambiguous energy blast when your suppose to be a ninja!? Surely Kishi can get more creative with a schizophrenic, psychopathic beast ninja. Its a dangerous move to start having fights like that...not to long ago fights were more detailed; and carefully explained. Can you tell me how the Raikage even survived that blast? Nothing was explained or even hinted at.

I think Raikage was strong enough to just ignore Juugo's pitiful attacks

(could be the raiton chakra surrounding him though)

As for kamehameha - at least that's a long range attack, even if it is simple... and its not lame looking like the rasen-shuriken. Kamehameha is an 'I have power' attack... and that's all a lot of Naruto fights lately tend to amount to. So if that's how it is, it may as well be done right. I despise battles that are primarily taijutsu, and the last Naruto/Sasuke was pretty much all taijutsu with the ninjutsu just supporting the taijutsu.

QUOTE(coolkid022888 @ Sep 4 2009, 10:55 PM)

Potential pluses for this chapter...Sasuke's very clearly in the naughty now. Seems like he's finally playing for keeps, and that's character progression. Also, even if Naruto doesn't, I think Yamato and Kakashi may have gotten the hint that it's no use converting Sasuke; especially with the Itachi story leaked. I'm just hoping for some cool new, unique jutsus from all these capable ninja gathered here. All the Kages are just miles away; surely they would own Sasuke.

About the kages owning Sasuke - can't be sure. He really could just unleash the amaterasu. That might be why Konoha was destroyed by Pain, so Sasuke wouldn't have a chance to destroy it and become completely irredeemable (which is why I'd have preferred if that happened).

Kireato

Sep 6 2009, 12:07 PM

QUOTE

I think Raikage was strong enough to just ignore Juugo's pitiful attacks (could be the raiton chakra surrounding him though)

It isn't a raiton property to harden skin, that would be doton, so I doubt that's it. As since the raikage is still made of flesh, I'd wager Juugo's attack was most certainly enough to blow him up.

A better explanation would be that, considering that Juugo thought he had blown the raikage to tiny little bits (since he could no longer see him in front of him), and the fact that the raikage was using a technique enhancing his reaction speed, that he merely moved out of the way.

ZsychPrime

Sep 6 2009, 12:19 PM

Its not like Sasuke's fireballs kill anyone. Why would we expect Juugo's energy attack to do much better? And who knows what else the Raikage is doing with his body and his jutsu.

Personally, I just bet on Juugo's attack not having enough power to take Raikage down, just as Raikage's super punch that broke Suigetsu's sword, somehow didn't take Juugo down.

Kireato

Sep 6 2009, 01:19 PM

QUOTE

Its not like Sasuke's fireballs kill anyone.

That would be because they're dodged.

QUOTE

Why would we expect Juugo's energy attack to do much better?

We have seen energy attacks hurt. (See bijuu level of energy attacks for mass destruction.) But really, if you want an explanation as to why some attacks are more effective than others it's a matter of these attack's ability to hit and chakra consumption. Fireballs are a long distance attack with a low hit rate, it would be wasteful to use so much chakra that they'd burn and kill on touch. Just like kunai, the point is to cripple if it hits, and they do that just fine. Most element chakra don't hurt all that much unless you concentrate the chakra on a small area (see the chidori's effect compared to the chidori fullbody armor, and realize that a chidori that fails to hit is a pretty big setback considering the chakra consumption). In Juugo's case, the curse seal allows him to use massive chakra, and that was noted.

QUOTE

And who knows what else the Raikage is doing with his body and his jutsu.

Sure, we don't know.

However, I can't help noticing that if Kishimoto had wanted to point out that Raikage had taken and survived the blast, he would have shown him standing in front of Juugo completely unharmed, instead, he was no longer there after the blast, Juugo thought he had destroyed him, and the next thing we see is the Raikage attacking Juugo from the back. I'm not sure why that doesn't scream HE DODGED IT for you, and I can only tell you a little bit more to convince you: his subordinates were pointing out that the raikage's specialty was speed, and they were concerned about him taking the attack at point blank.

QUOTE

just as Raikage's super punch that broke Suigetsu's sword, somehow didn't take Juugo down.

The punch went through Juugo's armored arm and a part of his chest. It didn't take Juugo down because Juugo's curse seal body has insane properties (We saw him repair Sasuke with it...). (As for the sword, I never understood what was supposed to be special about it. It's heavy, hard to wield, and it must slow the swordsman down a lot. I honestly don't think it taking a bijuu blast and a punch before it breaks compensates. Also, was that the first time we've seen a weapon break in Naruto? ) To put it simply, if you want to take Juugo down, without actually waiting for him to run out of chakra or using a massive attack to completely destroy him, which would be costly in chakra, you'll either aim for genjutsu or hitting him on the head to knock him out. (And the latter happened as far as I can tell.)

ZsychPrime

Sep 6 2009, 05:21 PM

Why doesn't it scream to me that he dodged it? Because I no longer expect to find any kind of sense in Naruto battles, and don't look for it.

KuraiKaze

Sep 6 2009, 10:34 PM

At least the story is moving along.

Kireato

Sep 7 2009, 03:27 AM

QUOTE(ZsychPrime @ Sep 7 2009, 02:21 AM)

Why doesn't it scream to me that he dodged it? Because I no longer expect to find any kind of sense in Naruto battles, and don't look for it.

If you weren't looking for sense, you wouldn't have interpreted a situation for someone else and then tried to justify it. You would have said from the start: "Don't try to make sense of it."

ZsychPrime

Sep 7 2009, 07:06 AM

Alright, I look for sense in a very vague and superficial manner. Its possible Raikage dodged. Its possible Juugo's attack was irrelevant to him. We've seen rasengan and chidori tear apart rocks but have nowhere near as much affect on a human with no armor or chakra defense. IIRC Juugo's thingy didn't even have an effect on the surrounding area shown. And however powerful his attack supposedly was is irrelevant since as far as Kishimoto plot goes, Raikage couldn't have been brought down by Juugo. The reason the attack had no real effect is not because the physics of the Naruto-verse allowed Raikage to escape the attack and Kishimoto thought that through, its because Kishi wants the fight to go a certain way, and the physics and story of his world will bend to support however he wants the fight or story to go, at that specific point in time when he's writing that chapter.

Kireato

Sep 7 2009, 01:35 PM

QUOTE

IIRC Juugo's thingy didn't even have an effect on the surrounding area shown.

Well then perhaps you should take another look at page 5 and 6 of the chapter. Juugo blasted a pillar away and the explosion created strong winds. It certainly is a much more destructive attack than either rasengan or chidori, when comparing with what they did to the water towers.

QUOTE

We've seen rasengan and chidori tear apart rocks but have nowhere near as much affect on a human with no armor or chakra defense.

We've seen the chidori pierce bodies plenty of time. And we know that doton is weak to raiton, which is why rocks and concrete tend to be blasted away by the chidori. As for the rasengan, you seem to forget that Kabuto was healing himself during the attack, otherwise, he would have ended up with a hole and his insides torn away like the water tower. I can't recall any other instance of the rasengan hitting... And we've seen the rasenshuriken shred human bodies. So I'm not sure what you're talking about.

QUOTE

And however powerful his attack supposedly was is irrelevant since as far as Kishimoto plot goes, Raikage couldn't have been brought down by Juugo. The reason the attack had no real effect is not because the physics of the Naruto-verse allowed Raikage to escape the attack and Kishimoto thought that through, its because Kishi wants the fight to go a certain way, and the physics and story of his world will bend to support however he wants the fight or story to go, at that specific point in time when he's writing that chapter.

That's wonderful, but I don't understand why you bring it up since it doesn't favour either of our theories explaining how the Raikage wasn't brought down by Juugo.

I've already given an explanation that relies on what we know (the Raikage's quick reactions and speed) and your explanation relies instead on what we don't know (the Raikage being a tank), which is why I've discarded it.

ZsychPrime

Sep 7 2009, 05:33 PM

If I kicked a decent wall hard enough to put a hole through it, I expect my foot would be broken

How much of a tank he is, is debatable, and yes, as far as reasonable explanations go, his getting out of the way of the blast is the better explanation.

As for chakra attack effectiveness, even rasen-shuriken in its earlier, and more destructive looking variant, couldn't actually destroy Kakuzu's body even. There was no raiton crap that time to create that giant crater.

Kireato

Sep 7 2009, 10:01 PM

QUOTE

If I kicked a decent wall hard enough to put a hole through it, I expect my foot would be broken

We've already seen how Sasuke raped concrete with his chidori without actually touching the wall back in part 1. I assume the Raikage is doing the same. If the wall crumbles before he can get in contact, he's not going to break his own bones.

One must then wonder how the Raikage doesn't fall through the ground... But hey, ninjas can walk on water and trees thanks to effective control of their chakra, and similarly the Raikage avoids breaking the ground when he wants to stand on it by controlling his raiton output.

QUOTE

As for chakra attack effectiveness, even rasen-shuriken in its earlier, and more destructive looking variant, couldn't actually destroy Kakuzu's body even. There was no raiton crap that time to create that giant crater.

Well shounen really stands for "little boy's manga", so gore is mostly avoided as a rule. (With light exceptions such as Hidan.

) Then there's the rule that Naruto is a pure hero that never kills yet fights only with monstrously destructive techniques.

However, you are quite wrong in saying that Kakuzu's body wasn't destroyed. It seems you forgot that before the blast Kakuzu was the tentacle rape monster while after he wasn't. The tentacles he used as a shield got destroyed. And conveniently, just like when Kabuto confronted the rasengan, Kakuzu had just enough in him to survive in one piece.

As for the crater, while raiton is most effective it's not like nothing else can make them.

ZsychPrime

Sep 8 2009, 03:40 PM

Raiton might have some good reason for affecting earth but other stuff doesn't, so we should be assuming pure power. Maybe the ninja have also evolved an immunity to ninjutsu over the millenia.

As for Raikage, if he isn't using his lightning chakra, walls shouldn't be crumbling for no good reason.

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Kireato

Sep 9 2009, 03:54 AM

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