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Summary (by bruceLee):


I'll sum up my thoughts with smilies:

So here I was hoping for a good, long fight with some emotion, determination and all that; where ultimately both sides were pushed to their limits.

What I get, apparently, is Naruto defeating all but one Pain in one chapter.

I think Kishimoto has got this all wrong. This is what the Kakuzu fight should've been like (rather than the absolutely pathetic and pointless debacle it was), not what the fight with one of the main antagonists who's just killed Jiraiya and destroyed half of Konoha should be like. This should have been an epic battle, one that actually made the reader feel involved, feel anything really. Jiraiya gave his life to get information about Pain. We just had about ten chapters devoted to showing off some of what each body does. And what was it all for? Nothing. Nothing at all.

The only way for this to be remedied is:
1. At least make Naruto's fight with Yahiko Pain be somewhat epic.
2. Have Naruto fight Nagato very soon.

Or maybe I'm underestimating Kishi, maybe he has some direction in mind for the next few chapters that I never saw coming... I hope he does. Or maybe Pain will make a comeback somehow. For now, though, I doubt it.

I am interested to see what that Rasengan towards the end was all about, though. I can't tell from the description or pictures.

I don't think the pictures you posted are working

But I have to agree with you on most of what you're saying. Kishi has failed as a writer in general. In part II he's created uninspired villains, an unreliable time line, poor pacing of events, and a very unimpressive main character. I don't see how he couldnt have seen this coming, though at this point it looks like he doesnt really care about the quality of work he's putting out.

I would re-upload them somewhere else, but they aren't even working for me now, so I can't download them to do it. Ah well, I'll look around later.

As for Kishimoto, hopefully he's had some amazing idea that he just can't wait to get to, so he's rushing through everything else.

Pictures!!


Thankfully I'm easy to please, so I'm probably going to enjoy this chapter.

Well, looking at the chapter completely in isolation, it could probably be decent fun.

It's just of the context of this fight - well, this entire arc/plotline - as a whole, it's a big disappointment. Or it seems that way now anyway, I'm not completely ruling out Kishi pulling something off in the next few weeks.

I suppose I wanted something like Naruto's fight with Gaara (which was his finest moment by a long way, I still believe). This is more like, well, a slightly extended Kakuzu fight. Which is definitely not a good thing.

Yeh I can see what you're saying. Taken as an arc it has been a bit disapointing. Naruto needed more time and more build up. The problem is I can't see Narutos fight getting any better against God Realms pain. He doesn't have enough interesting abilities. I can kind of understand why Kishimoto has had him destroy Pain nice and quickly to help show his progress. But still, not a great arc.

With the arc as a whole, I think the problem is that it didn't really make me feel anything. Even when he nuked Konoha, it just didn't seem important somehow. This fight is turning out to be the same.

It has certainly shown off the strength of Sennin Mode, though. I thought it seemed strong when Jiraiya used it, but Naruto's is just on a different level. I'm surprised this fight was used purely to show how strong Naruto is, though. Unless he'll be having another, more difficult fight soon (not that Naruto's won this one yet, but that's mostly just bad luck; Just a few more seconds might've been enough. He's proven himself to be much stronger than Pain, anyway.)

I didn't really think anyone (as in, potential opponents for Naruto) would be that much stronger than Pain. I did expect Madara to be a bit stronger, and Nagato if he's actually capable of fighting, but not that much. I guess I just believed the hype too much.

Well Pain's bodies are probably weakened from that huge nuke attack. It doesnt seem to be like he's trying very hard in this fight, and Pain can just gather a new bunch bodies even if these get destroyed. There might be another fight with Pain in the future, maybe with Nagato leading the bodies. I'd assume he would be pretty powerful, that is if he isnt some vegetable.

Definetly agree on your first point though. The series is in some serious need of emotion...I can't really even remember the last thing that moved me in this manga. Considering in part 1 I was holding back my emotions at the deaths (or fake deaths) of pretty unimportant characters like Zabuza, Haku, Chouji, Neji, etc. It's pretty sad that in comparison I didn't really feel anything when Jiraiya died, or Kakashi (if he stays dead).

Jiraiya did get me a bit when he passed on. Kakashi not all though, because he isn't dead!! HE ISN'T!!

lol

This chapter is awesome.

I wondered how setting up a whole chapter for that jutsu would go;
Kishimoto: AND NOW WE UNVEIL THE AMAZING RASENSHURIKEN, ISN'T IT AWESOME???
Narutofanboysfromhisdreams: omg totally unexpected ur awsome
Narutofanboys: wait what's this feeling of deja vu
Kishimoto: NOTHING THIS IS BRAND NEW

I was hoping Pain would put up some resistance, but he's using his bodies as cannon fodder one after the other. This was reduced to a one on one, except God Pain only has this single ability to fight (can he even use it already?).

Oh yeah, why exactly is Naruto shouting: "IS THIS WHAT YOU CALL PEACE?"
Who exactly told him Pain was trying to achieve peace.
Pain didn't really try, he really couldn't have. It'd be too hilarious if he did.

MOER EDIT:
ALSO WHY YOU BASTARDS ALL FORGETTING ABOUT SHIZUNE
WHO LIKE DIED FOR THE SAKE OF REVEALING WHERE NARUTO WAS
BEFORE NARUTO SHOWED UP BY HIMSELF LIKE TWO CHAPTERS AFTER

Because those things happened in the past! A Naruto fanboy can only see the now and the slighty after now, normally 7 days hence. Also, Naruto FINALLY threw Rasenshuriken. The technique he must *gasp* never use again because it will do him serious damage. But don't worry kids, he's overcome that hurdle and we didn't even know about!

Yeah, not really seeing much potential in a one-on-one fight between a guy with two jutsu and another guy with one jutsu (which nullifies the other guy's two anyway).

Maybe he'll be able to do more if Nagato focuses all his chakra into that one body, Konan said something like that anyway (although all he did then was just a bigger version of the same thing).

I hate to try and justify kishi, but perhaps he is having these bodies die so he can see naruto fight. Perhaps he knows he can't beat naruto after taking out a whole village, and is therefore sacrificing everyone so that he can see what naruto has got up his sleeves. I mean, naruto really could've beaten these guys without busting everything out. But now, everyone knows what he's got. So next Pain fight will be different, I'm assuming, since kishi will give nagato some magical counter to all of naruto's stuff.

Well that'd be justifying Pain rather than Kishi. It'd be a reasonably smart move for Pain (after an incredibly stupid one using the massive Shinra Tensei, admittedly)... apart from the fact that he'd been ordered to capture Naruto, like, now. And I think Yahiko's body might be kind of important. But luckily for him, at least the Hachibi wasn't captured, so he doesn't exactly need to capture Naruto just yet, although he doesn't know that.



(I still think it would be bad writing, though.)

It's not like I disagree, Pain's bodies are all corpses, it's not important if he loses them. He could even be using all of this just to waste Naruto's chakra.

In fact, I might be wrong, but reading at the spoilers again, two pains might have survived, both god and hell.
Let's look at the events again

Mario Jump beats Missile Pain.
Invisible Punch beats Fat Pain.
Secret Jutsu beats Fashion Pain.
Massive Tongue Action beats Loli Pain.
More Secret Jutsu are sent at Old Pain, and Plain Pain.
Then the Senile power runs out.

Now, as far as I'm aware of, as long as Plain Pain and Old Pain are safe, he can attract his other bodies and revive them. It's not that hard to keep Old alive either, since Plain's repulse should act as a shield for both of them.

Besides, we never did see how he dealt with Jiraiya. Maybe he likes getting raped and using his bodies like Naruto uses Kagebunshins?

But the bigger problem here is that it still seems like he's wasting his energy. It's not like recovering bodies and repairing them is free of any energy cost. He's got six bodies, yet all of Pain's attempts feature trying to one on one Naruto with a body. That makes no sense, he could test the waters while using more than one body at a time.

I think the point of this may be to kill off Pain's other bodies so that he can channel all of his power through one medium, and thus have greater effect. I think we're going to see what God Pain's abilities are when he's not at 1/6th chakra. Plus, if God Pain's body is destroyed, Nagato is likely to be extremely pissed - especially if the loss is somehow permanent, without the resurrection Pain around.

The thing is, I don't think it matters terribly if all of Pains bodies die. He'll just get 5 or 6 new ones. Of course God Pain hopefully holds some sort of importance for him. But still, the only way to actually kill Pain is to kill the source. It's the most perfect puppet jutsu really. You can be as far from the action as you like, and have 6 puppets that all share their senses and can work together. And if they all die, you just get 6 new bodies and put new rods in them and start again. He doesn't even really have to rebuild the puppets, not in the same Sasori would've.

Hmm... so apparently, at the end of this chapter, Naruto has run out of sennin power, without God Pain being defeated yet, and with Pain now being able to run all his power through one body. Nice.
At this point, I'm not sure it would matter if Naruto did somehow end up with the Kyubi extracted, since Kage Bunshin should be able to provide him an endless source of sennin power. I'd always hoped to see more of Kyubi though - disappointing that he's no longer relevant to the story.

I agree about kyuubi. While he did provide a roadblock to sennin power, it seems like the powreup that he provided, and the whole power-at-a-cost thing has been left behind. Naruto suddenly doesn't even need the kyuubi to fight anymore. While the goal seemed to be a union of thought and action with your tailed beast in the other cases, Naruto is going on the road of completely ignoring his. It seems rather strange that the focal point of most of the series, and the coolest part, IMO, naruto's interaction with the kyuubi, has been ignored for a long time. Maybe kishi wrote himself into a hole with the sharingan controlling the kyuubi or something, and needed to give naruto a way to beat sasuke, but it seems to me like the coolest part of the whole series, naruto getting taken over by an evil demon and kicking ass, has gone by the wayside.

Everyone seems to love the Kyuubi apart from me...

I thought it was cool enough the first time it came out, against Haku, but like anything else it just got less interesting each time it happened. By the end of part 1, with the one-tail and all that, I was pretty indifferent.

Having said that, I am interested in some of the things Jiraiya talked about prior to his fight with Pain... about the 'key' that Yondaime left (where did that frog go, anyway?) for Naruto to eventually use, and Naruto completing some technique that Yondaime had in mind, presumably relating to control of the Kyuubi power. Jiraiya seemed to imply that Yondaime might have done all that so that Naruto could defeat Madara in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if that was true... Sennin Mode will be his way to beat Pain and, if applicable, Nagato, but I doubt it will be relied upon another time. Naruto will probably need some new powerup, and I'm expecting that to be Kyuubi-related. There's certainly some history between the Kyuubi and Madara, after all, so it could add a bit of extra substance to the plot too.

I mean, I wouldn't find Naruto going super-Kyuubi very interesting at all in itself (I think Sennin Mode is more exciting to watch, personally)... but I am interested to see how it could fit into the plot, and bring up some things from the past including Yondaime and Madara.

I find it interesting that before Naruto left for the mountain he couldnt even create chakra without the kyuubi chakra coming out and making him go crazy but now it seems he can control it perfectly.

I don't really care about the kyuubi either way...I think Sage mode is enough. He's already got a powerup that can make him extremely strong and extremely fast, which are really the only two things he needs. Anything that will power him up further seems unnecessary. Though as Woofie was talking about it might be interesting to see what the connection is between kyuubi and Madara, as well as figuring out why exactly Yondaime sealed the kyuubi in his own son. So I think there are still some story points it could be used at in interesting ways...but the kyuubi in Part II has gotten such a bad name that I dont think I'd want to see Naruto using its powers.

Sennin mode + 9 tail Kyuubi transformation + Sasuke's super mangekyou is the key to defeating Madara. But just sennin mode + 9 tail Kyuubi transformation to beat Nagato. Well that's my idea.

Its not spoilers no more, full chap is up on onemanga.com:

also, utterly predictable but still completely awsome xD

Its also up on Chuushin.

Holy shit @ thrown Rasen Shuriken

Oh, so Hell Pain did survive after all... so in theory he could revive all the bodies. That'd be lame as well though, since we'd just be going from one completely one-sided fight to another.

Rasenshuriken didn't work quite as I expected. It was kind of cool, but what happened to the millions of wind needles that completely imobilised Kakuzu? This seemed just like a giant shuriken. Still, it cut the guy in half, so you can't complain.

well the one he used against Kakuzu was incomplete and self-destructive, the completed version seems to have its power more focused and doesn't harm Naruto directly, in this I would call it superior in its completed form, even if it lacks the destructive power of the incomplete version.

But it's actually a much better technique. Its fairly small when thrown but even if you just manage to dodge it it then expands to a massive size and attacks anything within its radius. It's a good finishing move.

I'm inclined to think that wind enhanced kage-shuriken would be as useful in killing an opponent, and less of a pain to learn.
As for Naruto - would be kinda cool if he had a spare KB around, so that just when you think he's screwed the KB dispells and he gets his power back.

Yeah, the chapter turns out to look much better than the spoilers tell.



We didn't see them the first time. We must assume they're still happening, perhaps all in the same direction. Fashion Pain wasn't exactly able to move out of it, he was cut in half instantly, whereas Kakuzu didn't look as damaged.



Actually from what we know, he'll get some Kagebunshin to collect nature chakra and bide his time until they've collected enough. However, there's still a limit. Naruto has to mix in his own chakra with the nature chakra to go in sage mode. Once he runs out of his own chakra, collecting nature chakra will be pointless and dangerous. Without his own chakra to balance out the nature chakra, he'll just transform into a frog. Of course, Naruto still has the Kyuubi from which he can borrow chakra. But he didn't seem to have much control over that.

And it seems Naruto made two rasengans without any clones, uh? So no mistake there, he can do those. Why'd he make two however? And why was its power so weak? The rasengan usually makes big holes in stuff.



Yup, in the end, Naruto didn't even throw anything else at those two. I'm not sure he'll actually revive his other bodies immediately. As Zsych pointed out, more power in a few bodies can be useful, besides not even Pain should have limitless energy. Fat Pain is no longer around to absorb energy. (A pity, I really wanted to see him stand in the middle of the rasenshuriken expanded, with his shield, and slowly absorb that massive chunk of chakra.) I wonder if that body is even "dead" though, he only got punched. He might come back afterwards without getting revived.

In any case, in spite of people's awe at the rasenshuriken, it wasn't necessarily the best decision. It apparently took out a massive chunk of Naruto's chakra, and he's in sage mode. In the end, it only took out a single Pain while a punch, and a few small rasengans took out three Pains before. It's massively inefficient in comparison. It really doesn't expand enough if three Pains managed to get out of it. And if God Pain still had its ability, he could have tried pushing the jutsu away, or making his bodies float away instead of sacrificing one body to pick up another more important battle wise.

And Pain did try to convince Naruto that he was aiming for peace.

The frog summons had some trouble with that crazy dog splitting chimera summon. It was the same back then with Jiraiya. The summoning body is really very strong and useful in battle. I'm not sure how it manages to call these massive summons one after the other without showing any form of fatigue.

Summoning developed to bloodline ability level? Soldier pills, Tsunade's chakra storage, people working together for a jutsu, such ideas are under-used. A great jutsu master having a supporting chakra network (or building something to drain power out of the captured bijuu), would've been interesting. Of course, if we had stuff like that, these would be battles between wizards and not ninjas.

I think both probably have their advantages.

The thrown version, unfortunately, didn't look that hard to dodge. Human Realm only got caught because he saved Animal Realm (who was just standing there for some reason which wasn't explained). So other than the guy who didn't bother moving, all of them would've been able to avoid it. It does expand, but only horizontally, so jumping upwards at all pretty much guarantees avoiding it.

With the non-thrown version, it's incredibly easy to dodge if Naruto just charges in with it, but if he can come up with a plan like he did against Kakuzu, then it's basically a guaranteed hit (which the thrown version can never be unless the opponent is bound somehow).

I also think there are probably times when the effect of the incomplete version would be more useful than the completed one. I'm thinking of against near-immortals like Hidan, Kakuzu, Orochimaru and Sasori, who can recover from being cut in half but probably couldn't recover from their chakra being completely cut off.

Actually, I'd go so far as to say the only real advantage of the thrown version is that it removes the risk to Naruto (both in terms of injuring himself and in keeping distance from his opponent).

The damage range of the Rasen Shurukin that Naruto just used look smaller then it did when he was in training. Though one of Naruto's main strong points is his creativity and ability to use his jutsu in unexpected ways...so we'll see if Naruto can make it more effective in the future.

We'll see what happens next chapter, it looks like Naruto will finally face some challenges and not just own Pain the entire time so that should be exciting.

Hopefully he's less exhausted than he looks. At least the toads are still out, I guess, although I get the feeling they won't be that much of a factor for the rest of the fight. Big summons have never really been pitted against humans, it's always against other big summons (or bijuu).

Anyway, if Naruto can't get back in to Sennin Mode, I think the "we'll only get in his way" attitude of the villagers surely has to be dropped... I'm sure some help would be pretty damn useful now.

Or maybe Kiro's right, and he will need the Kyuubi to beat Pain.

All Hail Kyubi!!!

Seriously, the old fox needs to come back at some point, preferably soon... But honestly, the whole thing with Naruto having not quite figured out that Kage Bunshin solves all of his problems, is just kinda lame

As for the thrown rasen-shuriken, Naruto could always use clones to get his opponent where he wants them. Overall though, I'm annoyed that this technique had to be created at all, or that it was used at all when its chakra cost is high.... but you guys heard me ranting about the sheer worthlessness of Kishimoto's choices for too many chapters in the past, so I won't go further

I like that Kireato remembers the details of what has been said about jutsu - I used to look at it seriously once, and I remember being annoyed that Kinmotsu disapproved of lengthy analysis of jutsu and stuff.. now I just accept that there's no real intelligence there, so trying to extrapolate based on available information is a waste of time

Very true! It is surprising that the Kyuubi's chakra did not disturb his training more.
He definitely had no control over the Kyuubi's chakra seeping out. But it hasn't bothered him lately.
And yet he's pushed himself really hard during the sage training. So it's inconceivable that the Kyuubi's chakra wouldn't have come out.
I wonder if we'll see the Kyuubi's chakra now again. He looks rather strained.

The only explanation I can offer is Itachi. But it's more likely Kishimoto conveniently forgot about it.



Ah, but coming to discuss Naruto of all things does not suggest that I care about wasting time, besides jutsu are the most interesting aspect of Naruto. ^_^

Exactly, ninja battles should have been about the intelligent use of all available jutsu (of which there should have been many). More chess game than raw force, as it has become. Things looked so promising in the beginning, during the Zabuza arc, even during the chuunin exam, and since then...

It's been a battle between power houses to see which one could nuke the other first...

That and one on one battles are just less interesting. It was okay when it was kids against kids in a tournament that isn't too serious, but in the real ninja world, things should've been more interesting.
Fact is, none of the ninjas have abilities that are very interesting when they're alone, whereas they can be interesting in combination with other people's tactics and work. Plus team fights also have more room for emotional interplay between members.